 Releasing
a CD every year for the past five years, Mark
Wingfield and Kevin
Kastning return
to the recording world with the 2015 CD release of Eleven
Rooms. Improving
with every album release, the duo hit yet another new high with Eleven
Rooms. There’s
always some concept or approach taken with every one of their
album releases, and on the eleven track Eleven
Rooms, the
concept focuses upon the works of the obscure Dutch painter Johannes
Vermeer(1632-1675). From the liner notes of Eleven
Rooms, the duo
add, “For most of the pieces on this recording, we placed prints
of Vermeer’s paintings in front of us while we recorded.” While
all of the albums by Wingfield and Kastning have certain similar
sonic elements of surprise, perhaps the most illuminating aspect
on Eleven Rooms is
the excellent sound quality they achieve in Studio Traumwald in
the Boston area, while Wingfield deftly handles the mixing and
mastering in The Gravity Factory in the U.K. Renowned for his
avant garde excursions that feature custom guitars, with
astronomical amounts of strings, Kastning’s guitar setup is
relatively modest here with the CD featuring his 36 string
Double Contraguitar, the 30 string Contra-Alto guitar, 6 string
classical guitar and mandolin. The mandolin sound, unheard on
earlier albums, adds in yet another new sonic texture and in and
of itself it adds in a kind of impressionistic Americana sound
in places. On the fast track towards becoming a world renowned
jazz-rock fusion electric guitarist Wingfield, fresh from his
2014 album Proof
Of Light, sounds
quite energized throughout Eleven
Rooms, never
dominating the soundstage or over saturating the audio
spectrum—instead adding sonic depth, with ample reverb that
brings towering drama to Kastning’s geometric, multi-string
mosaics. Even with a string of fine albums already released by
this guitar team, it’s worth restating that Eleven
Rooms is the best
sounding and most revealing album yet from Kevin Kastning and
Mark Wingfield.www.KevinKastning.com / www.MarkWingfield.com
mwe3.com presents a new interview with
Kevin Kastning & Mark Wingfield
 mwe3: Eleven
Rooms is the
fifth album by Kevin Kastning and Mark Wingfield. When you first
met did you think your working relationship would have such long
legs? When was Eleven
Rooms recorded? I
think it’s your best-performed and best-recorded album yet.
Anyway, it sounds great on my vintage gear from the late 1980s
and early ‘90s so I think you’ve finally bridged that vintage
sonic gap with style! Did you set out to record your finest yet?
Kevin Kastning: Hi Robert. Mark and I first worked
together on the album I
walked into the silver darkness, which
was recorded in 2010. At the end of those recording sessions, we
both agreed that we'd like to do an album project per year, and
here we are six years later with the release of our fifth album,
with the sixth one in the can. Eleven
Rooms was
recorded in July 2014. And to answer your other question: every
time we're in the studio we set out to record our finest one
yet. I think each record of ours has gotten stronger than the
one preceding it. Thanks for the kind words about the recording
quality. The actual recording sessions were set up about the
same as our previous ones. Mark did the mix and mastering, and
had some new tools at his disposal, and to my way of hearing, I
think this is probably our best-sounding record. He did an
outstanding job.
Mark Wingfield: I think I knew we would be working
together into the future after our first session for our first
album. What happened at the first session was for me, totally
unique musically and I knew we had just scratched the surface. I
think as time has gone on we have gone deeper into what we
started on the first album. Thanks for your comments on the
recording quality. We do work hard to achieve great quality
recordings and I make every effort to preserve or even enhance
that during the mixes. A handful of the top software designers
have been advancing so much in the past two or three years, to
my ears it has at this point surpassed the sound of analog. In
fact some of the latest software can go well beyond hardware in
terms of enhancing the sound in the very ways hardware is famous
for, only without all the compromises and downsides of using
hardware. This makes it a lot easier for me when mixing and
mastering to get a richer, more organic sound. I think this
revolution in audio, in conjunction with the new international
loudness normalization standards are going to mean a huge
improvement in audio quality and realism.
mwe3: Were there any new guitars or recent gear /
instruments used during the creation of Eleven
Rooms? I want to
ask about specific tracks from Eleven
Rooms and perhaps
Kevin wouldn’t mind telling us why he chose what guitar for each
track, especially as he has several featured and the mandolin
too, which we would also like to hear about. Mark is just listed
on the electric guitar here, which will no doubt intrigue fans
as to what guitar or guitars he’s using. Were you recording
direct in or were you using amps on the new CD? Any changes or
processes in the recording setup this time around?
 Kevin
Kastning: For Eleven
Rooms, we based
each piece on a painting by Johannes Vermeer. We did some
diagramming and in-depth discussion for each piece. I selected
the instrument based on the painting and wanted to match the
textures of the instrument and its tuning to each Vermeer. There
were a couple of his paintings that seemed to want to be on
mandolin, which is an instrument I rarely use in the studio. In
fact, I think this is the first time I've used it on a Greydisc
recording. Regarding the recording studio, there were no real
changes from our usual studio setup.
Regarding the instruments I selected for each piece, I used my
two main instruments: the 36-string Double Contraguitar, and the
30-string Contra-Alto guitar on most of the album. I used
6-string classical guitar on "A Balance in Light I & II," and
mandolin on "The Slumber" and "The Allegory of Painting." I used
the instrument that I felt would best capture or illustrate the
painting on which the individual piece was based.
Mark Wingfield: My setup was the same as previous albums.
I was using a Roland VG-88 and a laptop. The VG, which is a
guitar processor not a synth, provides the basis of my sound. I
then use the laptop to augment that using filters, reverbs and
other enhancements. Unlike some of our previous albums, I didn't
use any synth or samples on this album. It's all just electric
guitar. In fact, what's slightly unusual for me on this album is
that on some of the tracks I played with a completely clean
guitar sound. It just seemed right for the music and the feeling
of the session. My Patrick Eggle LA guitar is the only one I
currently use for recordings and live work though I have other
guitars I practice on.
mwe3: It’s interesting that Kevin decided to play the
mandolin on Eleven
Rooms. What does
the mandolin add to the mix and what tracks was the mandolin
more featured on? Tell us about the mandolin as you haven’t used
it before on record right? For instance on the first track on
the CD, “A Letter At A Window: Opening” is there a kind of
Americana feel to the music? Is that a kind of different sound
for you in that Mark’s electric guitar playing sounds a little
different?
 Kevin
Kastning: I did use it on a record project back around 2001
- 2002, but those were radio-only recordings and were never
released. For this project, it just seemed to fit a couple of
the paintings; it helped to translate what I heard in the
paintings. It is a sparser voice with a very limited register.
There was certainly one piece, "American Midwest: Touch" about
which Mark felt very strongly that to his way of hearing was
about the American Midwest; hence that title. On the surface, it
might seem unrelated to the Vermeer works on the record, but it
was recorded at the same sessions and we both felt that it was
very connected to the other pieces, so that's why it was
included on the album.
Mark Wingfield: What I found interesting about this
session is that it was inspired by the paintings of the Dutch
artist Vermeer. We had books with prints of the paintings open
in front of us as we played the session. Yet, as you point out
there is a feeling of Americana in some of the tracks. I can't
explain that exactly, except that it was just there, it's what I
felt in the music during the session. Perhaps it is that some of
the things in Vermeer's paintings are universal and so we
interpreted them through our own cultural lens and experience.
Although I have spent much of my life in the UK, I was born in
the US and have spent a significant amount of time there
especially in childhood and young adulthood. So a core part of
me is and always will be American. Yet at the same time another
major part of me is English, I've spend most of my life in
England, my wife is English, my mother is English, and my dad is
American.
For most of the tracks we decided to theme the titles on the
paintings which inspired each piece. For track two however, I
felt we really needed to depart from that and specify the
American feel. Having said that, I think that although the
titles are inspired by various Vermeer paintings, in another way
they could just as easily relate to scenes of life in American
or anywhere else.
mwe3: How did it occur to you to include, as influences,
the paintings of Johannes Vermeer, who lived in the mid 17th
century? What paintings of Vermeer were you most intrigued by
and how does his work compare to some of the other influences
featured on your other albums? Are the track titles in direct
reference to Vermeer’s paintings and what can you tell us about
the cover art?
 Kevin
Kastning: I have been a fan of Vermeer's work for many
years. For me, it's not just about what he has painted, but so
many of his works seem to illustrate a secret story; it's
alluded to, but never blatantly represented. For me, this is
really strong and very moving. A couple of years ago, I was
reading a book about his paintings and his technique. His
control of and use of light in his paintings just knocks me
over.
The more I looked at his paintings, the more I could start to
hear textures in them. I knew I wanted to do a project based on
or involving his works. I thought about doing this as an album
concept with Mark, and I spoke with him about it and asked if he
would be interested in using that as a concept for one of our
records. He was very interested in it, so we booked it. A few
months before the recording sessions, I suggested we select a
handful of Vermeer's paintings that spoke to us, so we agreed on
a list of works on which to base our pieces. I then asked him to
make a diagram of how he hears various elements in our list of
selected paintings, and I did the same.
When we arrived in the studio, we compared our diagrams and
notes and created a third list, which was the painting elements
upon which we'd agreed do translate into compositional elements.
We both had books of Vermeer's paintings, so we both had the
painting on which we were working in front of us while tape was
rolling. Yes, the titles are based on the painting represented
by that track. We didn't want to use the exact painting titles,
but instead only referred to the actual paintings in the track
titles. The cover art is by Vermeer; it is a very tiny detail
from, I believe, "The Music Lesson." I loved how it captures his
grasp of and use of light; yet it was juxtaposed against a
shadow. There are times where I hear the music of Mark and I
just like that, and we both agreed that this detail of his
painting was a good representation of the overall feel of this
record.
Mark Wingfield: This was originally Kevin's idea. We have
discussed the work of numerous painters over the years and both
like a wide range of different genres of painting. We had
discussed the Dutch masters on various occasions and both felt a
strong resonance between their approach to light, shadow, the
inner stories contained in the paintings and our ideas about
music. So when Kevin suggested the idea that we use Vermeer's
paintings as inspiration for our next album I thought it was a
great idea. We usually look for a new approach to each album we
do together. Often these ideas are too abstract or difficult to
relate directly to the album title or liner notes. However in
the case of this album and Dark
Sonatas, which
was inspired by the composer Eliot Carter, it made sense to
explain the inspiration.
mwe3: What inspired “American Midwest”? There seems to be
that wide open spaces effect with some great twangy bass notes
on Kevin’s acoustic and Mark’s fusion guitar sound comes into
play.
 Kevin
Kastning: Now I'm not even sure on which Vermeer painting
that piece was originally based, but we just followed where it
led when we recorded it. During post-production, Mark said he
heard a very strong element of the American midwest in it. I am
originally from the American midwest; fact, I grew up there, and
I knew to what he referred in the piece and I knew what he was
hearing in it that had that connection. It is that wide-open
spaces element that you're hearing on which the piece is based
and why it has that title.
Mark Wingfield: This track just went in that direction.
For me it was something about what Kevin was playing, the
combination of those incredible bass notes, the rhythm and the
chords he plays in the higher register. I just saw the western
plains, the houses, the back yards, the lives, the distances,
and even the cities. So I played what I saw, all those places
and lives and the piece just went completely in that direction.
That's why I wanted to make the title reflect that, even though
it departed from the other titles somewhat. This piece has such
a strong and specific feeling to me that I felt it was important
that the title had a connection with what the piece was about.
mwe3: “The Slumber”, track 3, is one of the tracks with
mandolin. Does the mandolin have a kind pizzicato effect? Is
that track a kind of avant garde lullaby as there’s a kind a
restful effect from the track.
 Kevin
Kastning: That piece was based on a Vermeer painting where a
woman is at a table and has fallen asleep. It's a very strong
work, and we tried to capture that sense of calm in it. I felt
the mandolin brought a kind of delicate austerity and space to
the piece.
Mark Wingfield: I can see the painting quite clearly when
I listen to this piece because I remember very clearly the
feeling I got from the painting while playing. As Kevin says,
there is such a sense of calm in the painting and at the same
time the woman seems to be almost joyous in her sleep or her
dreams. That's the feeling I tried to capture and it did become
a sort of lullaby.
mwe3: What made you decide to make “A Letter At A Window”
into a three part recording? Tracks four “A Letter At A Window:
Message” and five “A Letter At A Window: Epilogue” feature an
extension of “Letter At A Window: Opening”. How do the three
tracks kind of fit together as a trilogy? Is there a meaning
behind the 3 titles? Part 3, track 5 has some pretty intense
guitars from Mark that don’t even sound like guitars.
Kevin Kastning: I think the painting’s actual title is
"Woman In Blue Reading A Letter." We felt that this painting was
so strong, both in artistic content and in the secret story
element I previously mentioned, that during the recording
sessions, we weren’t sure we’d captured what we’d intended. We
really wanted to try to represent the story, as well as the
fantastic sense of light and mood Vermeer established there. So
we did more than one version of it, thinking that we’d choose
the one that came closest to what we wanted for the painting.
However, when we heard the rough mixes of all three, it was as
if each one contained an element of the painting that the others
didn’t. So we decided to include all three in the hopes of
having our complete interpretation or translation of the
painting.
Mark Wingfield: Actually what I'm playing here is just
electric guitar played into a long reverb and echo using a
volume pedal. I think perhaps the way I'm manipulating the pitch
at times makes it sound unusual and less like a normal guitar.
These three tracks share the same title because they were
inspired by the same painting and they seemed to fit together
musically as a trilogy. We didn't have a particular plan to do a
trilogy of pieces, but listening back we felt they worked well
in that context.
mwe3: “A Shadow And Folding” has two parts that make up
tracks 6 and 7. Mark’s sonic sustainer guitar is very much in
control of that track. What’s the inside story of that two part
track? Is Mark using any new sound shapers or sonic devices on
“A Shadow And Folding”?
Kevin Kastning: I'll defer to Wingfield on this one.
Mark Wingfield: A couple of times on this track I did
briefly use some sound manipulation on the laptop. I used a wave
shaper and frequency modulator, which I can bring in using
pedals or the touch strip attached to my guitar. However I only
used them momentarily a couple of times on these tracks and very
little if at all on the rest of the album. Most of what you hear
is actually just my normal guitar sound. What may be different
is that I am doing some unusual things with the pitch and
vibrato during sustaining notes.
Although my usual sound doesn’t have that much distortion or
overdrive on it, it does have a lot of rich upper harmonics. The
particular pattern of upper harmonics in a given guitar sound is
something that has always interested me. For readers unfamiliar
with what I mean here I'll explain. I'm not talking about
playing harmonics on the guitar, I'm referring to the upper
harmonic structure of sound. Any instrument’s sound can be
described in part by it’s unique pattern of harmonic overtones.
This pattern of upper harmonics is part of what makes an oboe
sound different from a violin or acoustic guitar. Every
different guitar sound or guitar tone has a different pattern or
signature of harmonic overtones. Even within one particular
guitar sound, different parts of the neck will have a different
variation of it’s signature upper harmonic pattern, hence you
get different tones playing in different areas of the neck. How
you play will also change that tone.
Once you have a note sustaining for a period of time, which I do
using a sustainer, the note will settle into a version of it’s
particular upper harmonic signature. For me this presents a rich
area of expression because if you vary the pitch during this
sustain, you also end up varying the harmonic overtones of the
sound. This means you can manipulate the tone as well as the
pitch. That for me opens up a big area of things which can be
done with different vibrato and pitch bending approaches.
Because you are altering the tone by what you're doing with the
strings, it can in effect become a different guitar sound.
mwe3:
Track 8 is “The Eighth Room”. Is that one inspired by a specific
Vermeer painting? That’s another very dark sounding track with
lots of sustain and some wild guitar freakouts by Mark. Is
Kevin’s role to hold down the fort here so to speak? Do you
switch roles on different tracks as to who will be the sonic
anchor and who will soar off into the stratosphere? The track
does have a great ending with some pizzicato like string effects
and Kevin’s guitar sounds like a tack piano!
Kevin Kastning: It was based on one of Vermeer's works,
but now I'm not sure which. I don't recall how we set up this
piece exactly. Often we will assign roles to ourselves, specify
ranges or registers, maybe thematic elements or harmonic
elements and base the piece on that. Once we get into the piece,
we're not necessarily bound by those guidelines; we just allow
the music to come into its own life and take whatever shape and
form it wants. In fact, there are pieces where we've agreed upon
three or four compositional elements; yet the piece may only
utilize one or two of those. The piece itself determines what it
wants and needs.
Mark Wingfield: We don’t tend to specify roles in a piece
but we will sometimes specify registers or the change of
registers, which we might do on a signal while playing. Often we
don’t specify anything apart from discussing instrumentation or
perhaps tempo. However even if we arrange something like
registers, we're as likely as not to abandon the idea at any
point during the piece if it feels right.
mwe3: What can you tell us about the two part “A Balance
Of Light 1 and 2”? Is that kind of a cooling down after the more
spatial elements of the earlier tracks? It almost has a New Age
feel to it but I think you guys would probably laugh at anyone
using the terms New Age to describe even your more astral
moments! Is New Age music off the map for you or are you too
interested in experimental and challenging music to rest on your
laurels enough to make a kind of ethereal New Age type album or
is anything in the cards? Anyway the two-part “A Balance Of
Light” is quite stately in its own right!
Kevin Kastning: I think our music is so difficult to
categorize that it may find itself in multiple categories. I
don't really mind that; people hear it and define it as they
wish, which is probably a good thing. I know that for me, when I
can sort of find my own way through a piece of music or a
painting and assign my own meanings to it, or allow it to speak
to me on its own terms, it becomes a much more personal and
profound experience for me. I've heard some really beautiful
music that is in the New Age category, so that term or category
doesn’t bother me in the least.
Mark Wingfield: I never think of any of the music I do as
being a particular style or not being a particular style. I
honestly think of it all as just music. I know that sounds glib,
but actually it's exactly how I think about it, what style it
might be doesn't come into my mind. I'm happy for listeners to
decide for that themselves if they feel inclined to. The music I
play and compose might at different times sounds like many
things, because that's what comes into my head.
I can’t imagine myself ever settling down to one style or
restricting myself to one style. This isn't because there's
anything at all wrong with doing so, it’s simply that what I
hear tends to change a lot, sometimes even within one piece. My
last band album, Proof
Of Light was
sometimes talked about in the press as sounding very "ECM" and
was often compared to artists on that label, however just as
often it was compared to progressive rock. Obviously there's
quite a wide range in-between those two styles. But it didn't
surprise me that these divergent comparisons were made. I think
I would have been worried if every review stuck it in the same
box. It’s the same with what Kevin and I do, we don't draw any
stylistic lines and we don’t avoid or peruse any specific
stylistic areas… we simply let the music develop in the
direction we hear and feel at the time.
 mwe3:
Is “The Allegory Of Painting” kind of the epilogue for Eleven
Rooms? Kevin’s
mandolin gives the track a kind of haunting and wistful sound.
Is this track a kind of a closing of the doors to the rooms and
the paintings or a way to say goodbye after some scintillating
sonic conversations? So where to now for you as far as new music
and future releases? Tell us about your recent concerts, where
did you play and what music are you playing in these late 2015
shows?
Kevin Kastning: We didn't intend on it being the final
piece when we recorded it. When we heard the rough mixes of
everything, it seemed to stand out as having a kind of peaceful
finality and closure to it. Nice that you heard it that way,
too!
As Mark said, we did a couple of performances in New York City
in December 2015, then spent a couple of days in the studio to
record our next album which will be out in late 2016.
For me, this is going to be a busy year. The new album with Carl
Clements is released on January 26. I just sent the masters for
my second solo album off to the label; that record will be out
in late February 2016. There's a new duo album with Sandor Szabo
that will be released this year, and there are a couple of other
projects on which I'm working which should also be out this
year. There is a trio record in the can of Sandor Szabo, Carl
Clements, and me; this will be out in late 2016. The new one
with Wingfield will be released also in late 2016.
Mark Wingfield: I decided on the running order for this
particular album and I felt this was a good ending track, it
just seemed to feel right. I'm glad you felt was a good track to
end with. In December we did a couple of concerts in NYC one at
Shapeshifter Lab and another live performance on WFMU.
Following these performances we went into the studio to record a
new album which will be released in 2016. It's a very busy year
for me also. I've just finished playing on Dwiki Dharmawan's new
album which mixes some of the best of London's jazz players with
Dwiki's unique blend of jazz and Indonesian gamalan influences.
I'm also mixing Dwiki's album. I am recording a new band album
in February with Asaf Sirkis and Yaron Stavi as well as an album
with touch guitarist, looper and composer Markus Reuter. I also
have a new album with harpsichordist Jane Chapman and Brazilian
percussionist Adriano Adewale coming out later this year.
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